White to move.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Dayffd
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:30 am

White to move.

Post by Dayffd »

I think this will come out right. If not, I will try again...

[d]r1b1r1k1/p2q1ppp/np2n3/3p1NBQ/8/6PB/P4P1P/1R2R1K1 w - - 0 22
David S.
Dayffd
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:30 am

Re: White to move.

Post by Dayffd »

Oh yes. The purpose of the above is to ask how fast will today's programs find the best move for white?
David S.
Jouni
Posts: 3281
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: White to move.

Post by Jouni »

Critter thinks (dual)

1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qh4 Nac5 3.Qxf6 Ne4 4.Rxe4 dxe4 5.Bg4 Bb7 6.Rd1 Bd5 7.Nh6+ Kf8 8.Rxd5
+/- (1.02 ++) Depth: 19/51 00:01:09 206mN
1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qh4 Nac5 3.Qxf6 Ne4 4.Rxe4 dxe4 5.Bg4 Bb7 6.Rd1 Bd5 7.Nh6+ Kf8 8.Rxd5
+/- (1.11 ++) Depth: 19/51 00:01:11 213mN
1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qh4 Nac5 3.Qxf6 Ne4 4.Rxe4 dxe4 5.Bg4 Bb7 6.Rd1 Bd5 7.Nh6+ Kf8 8.Rxd5
+/- (1.24 ++) Depth: 19/51 00:01:16 226mN
1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qh4 Nac5 3.Qxf6 Ne4 4.Rxe4 dxe4 5.Bg4 Bb7 6.Rd1 Qxd1+ 7.Bxd1 h6 8.Nd6 Rad8 9.Qxf7+ Kh8 10.Nxe8 Rxd1+ 11.Kg2
+- (2.14 ++) Depth: 19/51 00:01:52 325mN
Jouni
Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: White to move.

Post by Terry McCracken »

[d]r1b1r1k1/p2q1ppp/np2n3/3p1NBQ/8/6PB/P4P1P/1R2R1K1 w - - 0 22

Houdini_15a_x64:
4/17 00:00 2,324 52,000 -0.32 Bg5-e3 Na6-c5 Bh3-f1 Bc8-a6 Bf1xa6 Nc5xa6
5/17 00:00 4,402 97,000 -0.32 Bg5-e3 Na6-c5 Bh3-f1 Bc8-a6 Bf1xa6 Nc5xa6
6/17 00:00 7,155 66,000 -0.34 Bg5-e3 Na6-c5 Bh3-f1 Bc8-a6 Bf1xa6 Nc5xa6 Re1-c1
6/17 00:00 8,544 41,000 -0.20 Bg5-d2 Na6-c5 Bh3-f1 Bc8-a6 Bf1xa6 Nc5xa6 Rb1-c1
6/17 00:00 18,522 60,000 -0.12 Nf5xg7 Ne6xg7 Bh3xd7 Re8xe1+ Rb1xe1 Ng7xh5 Re1-e8+ Kg8-g7 Bd7xc8 Nh5-f6 Re8-d8
7/21+ 00:00 25,853 60,000 -0.05 Qh5-h4
7/24 00:00 45,882 99,000 0.00 Qh5-h4 Bc8-b7 Nf5-e7+ Kg8-h8 Bh3xe6 f7xe6 Ne7-g6+ Kh8-g8 Ng6-e7+ Kg8-h8 Ne7-g6+
8/24+ 00:00 51,457 110,000 +0.06 Qh5-h4
8/24+ 00:00 73,701 148,000 +0.19 Qh5-h4
8/24 00:00 79,376 150,000 +0.16 Qh5-h4 Bc8-b7 Nf5-e7+ Re8xe7 Bg5xe7 h7-h6 Rb1-d1 Ra8-e8 Bh3xe6 f7xe6
9/27 00:00 231,556 408,000 -0.13 Qh5-g4 h7-h5 Qg4xh5 Na6-c5 Qh5-h4 Ne6xg5 Qh4xg5 Nc5-e6 Qg5-g4 g7-g6 Bh3-g2
10/27- 00:00 375,538 634,000 -0.20 Qh5-g4 h7-h5
10/27+ 00:00 407,624 680,000 -0.07 Qh5-h4
10/29 00:00 441,727 730,000 0.00 Qh5-h4 h7-h6 Bg5xh6 g7xh6 Nf5xh6+ Kg8-g7 Nh6-f5+ Kg7-g8 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-g7
11/29 00:00 530,072 853,000 0.00 Qh5-h4 h7-h6 Bg5xh6 g7xh6 Nf5xh6+ Kg8-g7 Nh6-f5+ Kg7-g8 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-g7
12/29 00:00 869,592 1,303,000 0.00 Qh5-h4 h7-h6 Bg5xh6 g7xh6 Nf5xh6+ Kg8-g7 Nh6-f5+ Kg7-g8 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-g7
13/33+ 00:00 2,555,745 2,989,000 +0.06 Qh5-h4
13/37+ 00:00 2,821,111 3,176,000 +0.19 Qh5-h4
13/42 00:01 4,627,328 4,195,000 +0.42 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7 Nf5-e7+ Re8xe7 Bg5xe7 h7-h6 Be7-a3 Na6-c5 Rb1-c1 Qc7-c6 Qh4-e7 Qc6-a4 Ba3xc5 b6xc5 Bh3xe6 Bc8xe6 Qe7xc5 Qa4xa2
14/42- 00:01 5,116,100 4,380,000 +0.35 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7
14/42 00:01 6,006,232 4,718,000 +0.31 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7 Nf5-e7+ Re8xe7 Bg5xe7 Na6-c5 Rb1-d1 h7-h6 Be7xc5 Qc7xc5 Qh4-h5 d5-d4 Qh5-h4 Qc5-a3 Bh3xe6 Bc8xe6 Qh4xd4 Qa3xa2 Rd1-d2
15/42+ 00:01 7,149,664 5,125,000 +0.37 Qh5-h4
15/42 00:01 7,828,037 5,339,000 +0.31 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7 Nf5-e7+ Re8xe7 Bg5xe7 h7-h6 Be7-a3 Na6-c5 Rb1-c1 Ne6-g5 Bh3-g2 Bc8-b7 Qh4-f4 Qc7xf4 g3xf4 Ng5-e4 f2-f3 Ne4-d6 Ba3xc5 b6xc5 Rc1xc5 d5-d4 Kg1-f2
16/47+ 00:02 18,614,566 7,377,000 +0.38 Qh5-h4
16/47 00:02 20,608,252 7,551,000 +0.42 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7 Nf5-e7+ Re8xe7 Bg5xe7 h7-h6 Rb1-d1 Na6-c5 Be7xc5 Qc7xc5 Qh4-h5 d5-d4 Qh5-h4 Bc8-b7 Bh3xe6 f7xe6 Qh4-g4 Ra8-d8 Qg4xe6+ Kg8-h7 Qe6-b3 Qc5-c6 Qb3-d3+ Kh7-h8
17/47+ 00:04 44,267,084 9,056,000 +0.48 Qh5-h4
17/47- 00:05 45,746,523 9,056,000 +0.35 Qh5-h4 Qd7-c7
17/47+ 00:07 71,429,530 9,709,000 +0.62 Re1-e3
17/72 00:09 99,361,137 9,956,000 +0.52 Re1-e3 d5-d4 Nf5xg7 Ne6xg7 Bh3xd7 d4xe3 Qh5-g4 Bc8xd7 Qg4xd7 e3xf2+ Kg1-f1 Na6-c5 Qd7-d5 Ra8-c8 Bg5-h6 Nc5-e4 Rb1-d1 Re8-e7 g3-g4 Ng7-e8 Rd1-c1 Rc8xc1+ Bh6xc1 Ne8-d6 Bc1-b2 Re7-e8
18/72+ 00:10 110,119,359 10,027,000 +0.59 Re1-e3
18/72 00:11 114,238,915 10,049,000 +0.49 Re1-e3 d5-d4 Nf5xg7 Ne6xg7 Bh3xd7 d4xe3 Qh5-g4 Bc8xd7 Qg4xd7 e3xf2+ Kg1-f1 Na6-c5 Qd7-d4 Nc5-e4 Rb1-b5 Re8-e6 Bg5-f4 Ra8-c8 a2-a4 Rc8-c2 Rb5-e5 Re6-d6 Re5-d5 Rd6-e6 Rd5-d8+ Ng7-e8 Qd4-d3 Rc2-a2
19/72+ 00:17 181,767,032 10,585,000 +0.56 Re1-e3
19/72 00:17 187,963,112 10,592,000 +0.55 Re1-e3 d5-d4 Nf5xg7 Ne6xg7 Bh3xd7 d4xe3 Qh5-g4 Bc8xd7 Qg4xd7 e3xf2+ Kg1-f1 Na6-c5 Qd7-d5 Ra8-c8 Bg5-h6 Re8-e6 Bh6xg7 Kg8xg7 Qd5-d4+ Kg7-g8 Kf1xf2 Re6-e4 Qd4-d5 Re4-e5 Qd5-f3 Nc5-e4+ Kf2-g1 Rc8-c3 Qf3-f4 f7-f6 Rb1-d1
19/72+ 00:28 305,673,760 10,806,000 +0.72 Bg5-f6
19/72+ 00:47 521,889,122 10,920,000 +2.46 Bg5-f6
19/72 01:17 863,430,229 11,205,000 +2.71 Bg5-f6 g7-g6 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-f8 Qh5-e5 Qd7-c7 Qe5-b2 Qc7-c5 Bh3-g2 Na6-b4 Qb2xb4 Qc5xb4 Rb1xb4 Bc8-b7 Re1-d1 Ne6-c5 Bg2xd5 Bb7xd5 Rd1xd5 Re8-e2 Rb4-b2 Re2xb2 Bf6xb2 Ra8-e8 Bb2-e5 Nc5-e4 Kg1-g2
20/72+ 01:19 888,498,362 11,203,000 +2.85 Bg5-f6
20/72 01:22 925,437,414 11,209,000 +2.87 Bg5-f6 g7-g6 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-f8 Qh5-e5 Qd7-c7 Qe5-b2 Qc7-c5 Bh3-g2 Na6-b4 Qb2xb4 Qc5xb4 Rb1xb4 Bc8-b7 Re1-d1 Ne6-c5 Bg2xd5 Bb7xd5 Rd1xd5 Re8-e2 Rb4-b2 Re2xb2 Bf6xb2 f7-f5 Kg1-g2 Ra8-c8 Rd5-d2 Kf8-e7 Rd2-e2+ Ke7-f8 Re2-c2 Rc8-d8
21/72+ 01:28 991,415,095 11,225,000 +3.01 Bg5-f6
21/72+ 01:32 1,040,311,999 11,232,000 +3.31 Bg5-f6
21/72 01:33 1,054,862,742 11,226,000 +3.15 Bg5-f6 g7-g6 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-f8 Qh5-e5 Qd7-c7 Qe5-b2 Qc7-c5 Bh3-g2 Na6-b4 Re1-e3 Nb4-c6 Re3-f3 Nc6-d8 Bf6xd8 Ne6xd8 Rb1-c1 Qc5-d6 Qb2-h8+ Kf8-e7 Qh8xh7 Re8-f8 Nh6-g8+ Rf8xg8 Qh7xg8 Bc8-e6 Rf3-c3 Ke7-d7 Qg8-h8 Ra8-b8 Qh8-h4
22/72+ 01:41 1,143,750,780 11,266,000 +3.31 Bg5-f6
22/72+ 01:51 1,259,541,873 11,300,000 +3.62 Bg5-f6
22/72+ 02:24 1,650,232,875 11,400,000 +4.38 Bg5-f6
22/79 03:16 2,244,471,425 11,446,000 +4.72 Bg5-f6 g7-g6 Nf5-h6+ Kg8-f8 Qh5-e5 Qd7-c7 Qe5-b2 Qc7-c5 Bh3-g2 Bc8-b7 Rb1-c1 Qc5-b4 Qb2-e5 Ra8-d8 Bf6xd8 Ne6-g7 a2-a3 Re8xe5 a3xb4 Re5xe1+ Rc1xe1 Ng7-e6 b4-b5 Ne6xd8 b5xa6 Bb7xa6 Bg2xd5 Ba6-c8 Nh6-g8 Bc8-e6 Ng8-f6 b6-b5 Re1-b1

i7 2600 Sandy Bridge 16GB DDR3 All Four Cores Running @3.5GHZ
Terry McCracken
Jouni
Posts: 3281
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: White to move.

Post by Jouni »

Actually Critter first wanted to play 1. Nh6+ which I think is also winning, if slower. After (forced) 1.- Kf8

Analysis by Critter 1.4 64-bit:

2.Bf6 (AGAIN) gxf6 3.Nf5 Kg8 4.Qh6 Nac5 5.Qxf6 Ne4 6.Nh6+ Kf8 7.Rxe4 dxe4 8.Nf5 Kg8 9.Bf1 Qd2 10.Rd1 Qg5 11.Nh6+ Qxh6 12.Qxh6 Bb7 13.Bh3 e3 14.fxe3 Be4 15.Qf6 Bg6 16.Bf5 Bxf5 17.Qxf5 Rad8 18.Rf1 Rd7 19.Rf2 Rc8 20.Kg2 h6 21.h4 Kg7
+- (2.40 ++) Depth: 23/77 00:20:03 3686mN
Jouni
Dayffd
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:30 am

Re: White to move.

Post by Dayffd »

OK, close and 1.Nh6 does appear to be winning, too, but white does have better in 1.Bf6. While both Critter 1.4 and Houdini settle on 1.Bh6 as the move to play, the follow up is where they seem to be going somewhat astray.
Bear in mind that I am not so good at chess to be pronouncing play by either the programs or the individuals involved good or bad. I am taking this from a column by GM Lubomir Kavalek in 2007. For me, and this means absolutely nothing, it is the follow up moves that determine the validity of a a player's idea. Now, after 1.Bf6 gxf6 (1...g6 2.Qh6! Bb7 (or Nac5) Rbd1! white threatens to lift one of his rooks to the fourth rank. (Kavalek)
What about now from this diagram for white's next move: Does either Houdini or Critter change it's "mind" as to best move for white? (And btw, thank you for your response. My chess computer is in shop right now. Fritz 12 kind of gets stuck on 1.Qh4...)

[d]r1b1r1k1/p2q1p1p/np2np2/3p1N1Q/8/6PB/P4P1P/1R2R1K1 w - - 0 23
David S.
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: White to move.

Post by zullil »

Dayffd wrote:I think this will come out right. If not, I will try again...

[d]r1b1r1k1/p2q1ppp/np2n3/3p1NBQ/8/6PB/P4P1P/1R2R1K1 w - - 0 22
I thought this one was familiar: http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 05&start=0
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: White to move.

Post by zullil »

Apparently this position prompted the following from you in 2007:
That is impressive! I felt no program could solve this in a reasonable amout of time.

It took nearly 12 minutes to see it was winning outright, nonetheless a very impressive result indeed!

Terry
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: White to move.

Post by zullil »

Dayffd wrote: [d]r1b1r1k1/p2q1p1p/np2np2/3p1N1Q/8/6PB/P4P1P/1R2R1K1 w - - 0 23
Critter says Qh6 crushes:

Code: Select all

25/71  19:45 12415399818 10473551 +11.80 Qh6 Qe7 Nxe7+ Rxe7 Rbd1 Nb4 Bf5 Ng5 Rxe7 Bxf5 Qxf6 Nf3+ Kg2 Bg6 Qxf3 Rf8 Qf6 Nd3 Rxa7 Nc5 Qxb6 Ne6 Qb7 d4 a4 Nd8 Qd7 Ne6 a5 Rd8 Qb7 Rf8 a6 Nc5 Qb4 Ne6 Re1 Bf5 Qb5 Bg4 f3
Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: White to move.

Post by Terry McCracken »

zullil wrote:Apparently this position prompted the following from you in 2007:
That is impressive! I felt no program could solve this in a reasonable amout of time.

It took nearly 12 minutes to see it was winning outright, nonetheless a very impressive result indeed!

Terry
Yes it did. I thought it looked familar. :)

Hardware and software have improved a fair bit since then.
Terry McCracken