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Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans?
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Who is stronger? Computer or Humans? How much?
Computer +500 elo
29%
 29%  [ 16 ]
Computer 301-500elo
27%
 27%  [ 15 ]
Computer 101-300 elo
32%
 32%  [ 18 ]
Computer 1-100 elo
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Equality
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Human 1-100 elo
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Human 101-300 elo
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Human 301-500 elo
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Human +500 elo
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Voted : 55
Total Votes : 55
- Poll expired -

Author Message
Oliver Brausch



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 237
Location: Munich, Germany
PostPost subject: Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans?    Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:15 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
Werewolf wrote:
Rebel wrote:
kranium wrote:
Adam- 100 to 120 Elo per doubling?

Why so negative ?

Especially when it's about something many programmers already know and you apparently don't Mr. Green

In the 80's the branch factor was about 4.0 and the estimated elo gain when doubling speed already was roughly 50-70 elo because an engine became ½ ply deeper. Nowadays with a branch factor of >= 1.5 <= 2.0 a doubling of speed gives a full ply to 1½ ply deeper search, hence the elo gain goes up as well.


Can you suggest somewhere where I can read about this? I tried wikipedia, but no joy.

Branching Factors have always confused me because they seem so incredibly low (I would have imagined a factor of 10, a factor of 4 seems barely plausible but 1.5 seems ridiculous or witchcraft)

I don't know much about this - what articles are good, please?


1) There is alpha-beta, which not chess-specific. It's a lossless method to cut trees. The effectivity depends on the ordering of the branches. That's why move-ordering in chess is so important.

I have never heard about a chess program NOT using alpha-beta. Anyone?

2) Then there is a lof of pruning (e.g. Null-Move). This is always lossy. So if you prune a lot, you got very low branch-factors, but you oversee a lot of nice moves, too. That's the price.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:19 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:28 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Andrew R. Case Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:45 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:50 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:01 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:26 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 pm
                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:08 pm
                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:10 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:13 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:15 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:43 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:54 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ignacio Garcia Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:03 am
                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:24 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:29 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:32 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 am
                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:53 am
                                                Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:33 am
                                                      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:49 am
                                                Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:14 pm
                                                      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:43 pm
                                                            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:15 pm
                                                            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:09 am
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:48 am
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:10 pm
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:23 pm
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:51 pm
                                                                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:58 pm
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:46 pm
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:12 pm
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:39 pm
                                                                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:10 pm
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:17 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:57 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:34 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:04 am
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:36 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:46 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:52 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:05 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:49 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ed Schroder Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:51 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:19 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ed Schroder Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Carl Bicknell Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Oliver Brausch Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:15 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Carl Bicknell Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:58 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ricardo Barreira Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:29 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:47 pm
                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Guy Marfan Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:52 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:43 am
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:27 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ricardo Barreira Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:24 am
                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:15 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sean Evans Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:00 am
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:07 am
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Eduard Nemeth Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:12 am
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