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Mark Young
Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 363
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 Post subject: 3-Hirn? (moved from T&M) Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:19 am |
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| michiguel wrote: |
| mwyoung wrote: |
| acase wrote: |
Mark,
In this particular position (as a Centaur and knowing that I was playing against a program) I would probably try something "silly" like 1.g4 .  |
We are testing the idea that a computer + humans combo is 200 elo stronger then just the computer alone when the humans can pick between 2 candidate best moves of the computer program.
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This is going to prove nothing, but it will be a lot of fun. BTW, this is an idea of yours, and it is not related to the 3-hirn, to be clear. Anyway, let's all people play (the other forum is for discussing the theory of this).
Miguel
| Quote: |
We are testing what is called the double-frtiz with boss. But here the program is stockfish.
**In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.**
Here the boss is CCC members and they can use programs or just themselves to pick the candidate move to vote on. |
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You are not correct, I did not invent this, this comes from the 3-hirn website, and it is related to 3-hirn. The protocol is called "Double-Fritz with Boss".
You can go the web site, This is one of his protocols, and he still claims a 200 elo gain for this protocol.
I chose this protocol to test because it always gives us a vote on almost every move. If I used two programs they would agree on the same move most of the time....
This was more fun to test...
From the 3-hirn website :
3-Hirn in Chess
In 1985 I started 3-Hirn with a seminal experiment in the game of chess. In chess the 3-Hirn consists of two different chess computers or chess programs and one human chess player. The computers are started and make their move proposals. Then the human player has the final choice amongst these candidate moves. 3-Hirn plays chess against other persons or chess computers.
Originally I wanted to write a computer program whose input are the move proposals of two "normal" (different) chess programs and whose task is to select one of these candidate moves for execution. The 3-Hirn experiment with a human controller was intended solely to demonstrate that an omnipotent controller program might be able to improve the chess performance of "traditional" programs. However, the success of 3-Hirn in this experiment was so convincing that I performed further 3-Hirn experiments with me as the human controller. (In the meantime automatic coordinators have been programmed for instance by Mathias Feist for Fritz and other chess programs running under "Chessbase" - and by my Ph.D. student Stefan Meyer-Kahlen based on his world champion program "Shredder".)
The following list shows the performances of several 3-Hirn teams with changing computers and programs. In all these teams I was the controller. Since 1985 my chess rating has always been between Elo 1950 and 1850.
Year Strength of the computer programs Strength of 3-Hirn
1985 1500 1700
1987 1800 2100
1989 2050 2250
1992/93 2250 2500
1995 2350 2540
1996* 2350* 2550*
1997** 2550** 2750**
* In 1996 not 3-Hirn itself was used, but a variant called "Double-Fritz with Boss". "Double-Fritz" means the chess program "Fritz 4" in its 2-best mode. In this mode Fritz does not only compute its best move but also its second best proposal. The Boss was me and had the final choice among the two Fritz proposals.
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Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, |
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3-Hirn? (moved from T&M)