Draft of Manifesto

[SuneF]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

[Laskos]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.

Kai

[SuneF]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.

Kai

"As I describe"?? Look up manifesto first

Obviously we cannot prevent people from cheating. The latest developments has proven that.

What we can do is set some guide lines for how it ought to be done.
Without some basic rules we have anarchy and no serious developer wants to participate in that. A futile attempt perhaps.

Btw notice how I skillfully avoided the words clone and derivative in the manifesto

[Guenther]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.

Kai

What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.

=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post

[Laskos]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.

Kai

What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.

=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post

Sorry, for music there are better forums, I am very rigid on this topic. I remember posting at one time when Tord, probably the only one here who understands something about music, had posts on this topic.

Kai

[F. Bluemers]

Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------

In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets

While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.


Comments?

Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.

Kai

What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.

=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post

Sorry, for music there are better forums, I am very rigid on this topic. I remember posting at one time when Tord, probably the only one here who understands something about music, had posts on this topic.

Kai

Aren't you mixing up science with applying science?

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas

Best
Fonzy

[Laskos]

Aren't you mixing up science with applying science?

* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas

Best
Fonzy

No, I am in theory, I think I don't have to cite from Euclid to Gauss, Rieamnn, Hilbert and further. Only 10-40% of an accepted paper is usually original, but even this part has plenty of reused stuff.

This "Manifesto" is simply a fall into obscurantism.

Kai

[PauloSoare]

What do you think about plagiarism in music? Just curious.

[SuneF]

This "Manifesto" is simply a fall into obscurantism.

Kai

So you prefer copied code of old ideas with an author who takes credit for something he didnt invent.
And you think following that path will take us out of obscurantism?

I would think most could agree to at least the first three items.
Perhaps the 4th is a bit controversial on its own, but together with the first three it makes sense as a protective measure against copy and reuse.

[Laskos]

What do you think about plagiarism in music? Just curious.

Now, if we take Brahm's 1st symphony (last part) and say that it's a Beethoven derivative, it would be totally wrong. As Brahms said "every idiot can hear this Beethoven theme" (or similar). There is a specific meaning to that theme.
As for polystylists like Schnittke (died recently), with reusable pieces and rewritten contrapuncti, one has to decide for himself. Who would accuse Prokofiev for his neo-Calssicism? In music nowdays the problem of charlatanry (most minimalists for example) is much more present.

I could write on and on, but this is OT.

Kai