Anand vs. Gelfand WCC 2012 started

[S.Taylor]

But Anand plays 15.gxh5!!
After Qxh1 the queen gets trapped! Houdini evals this as +2 for white.

1-0! Vishy is on his game today.

UPDATE: Boris just resigned.

Gelfand gave Vishy a sweet/candy today!
Now let's see the REAL stuff begin!

(I don't think it was Vishy who won the game from skill. I'm sure that even _I_ [which doesn't mean much] would have done the same moves as Vishy, after Gelfands Qf6 [though i might not have have finnished him off had he not resigned!])

[Guenther]

I think Qf6 is a tactical mistake,QxRh1 is a blunder because you hung the queen.

We all know by now that Qf6 was a tactical mistake no need to repeat it,
as it was already said in the thread. Moreover Qxh1 was no blunder and does
not hang a Q it was just the consequence of Qf6, but White remains with a
lot of attacking power and by far better position. Still it seems Gelfand
resigned too early and was somehow shocked by Qf2...

Guenther

If he only "miscalculated", he may have actually known that his queen would get trapped, but there was an oversight in some other detail.

I don't know what this has to do with my post?

[Uri Blass]

I think Qf6 is a tactical mistake,QxRh1 is a blunder because you hung the queen.

We all know by now that Qf6 was a tactical mistake no need to repeat it,
as it was already said in the thread. Moreover Qxh1 was no blunder and does
not hang a Q it was just the consequence of Qf6, but White remains with a
lot of attacking power and by far better position. Still it seems Gelfand
resigned too early and was somehow shocked by Qf2...

Guenther

I believe that at the level of strong GM's white wins with probability of 99% after Qf2 even if black continues the game.

Not perhaps only 90% probability and he could have tried for a draw? (but had too much pride, as if to admit that such a mistake was acceptable for him)

No
I believe that at the level of anand and considering also the fact that anand was not in time trouble it is at least 99% probability to win.

[Hood]

Anand is stronger player because he has played more games on super level, posses higher rating on that distance and his class of play is higher. That is it. I am sorry.

The equal score is a result of a nice opening and 1st phase middlegame preparation by Gelfand not his strength. .
Have you noticed that most games around 20th move were dry endgames.

I am not Anand fan.

[IGarcia]

Anand is stronger player because he has played more games on super level, posses higher rating on that distance and his class of play is higher. That is it. I am sorry.

The equal score is a result of a nice opening and 1st phase middlegame preparation by Gelfand not his strength. .
Have you noticed that most games around 20th move were dry endgames.

I am not Anand fan.

Anand was only one ply ahead, witch was enough!!

If you look at official commentators (GM Leko and GM Nepomniachtchi) both sugested the "natural" Qf6, indirectly defending the knigh... Both where surprised with 15. gxh5 and only then they realized that "white is giving the exchange for a good attack".

They also missed, as Gelfand, the killer 17.Qf2! Note this commentators does not have engines. Hearing this human comments you can understand better why Gelfand blundered and see how tricky was Anand.

Commentators with engines, like GM Csaba at chessbomb writing inmediatly after Gelfand move " 14... Qf6 Amazing, Gelfand blundered with Qf6!!! Black can just resign after 15.gxh5 Qxf3 16.Kc2 Qxh1 17.Qf2! "

Just make me laugh... dishonest commentators, repeating the engine and cometing with a 3000+ level. They sure will be crushed by Gelfand!!

[Uri Blass]

Anand is stronger player because he has played more games on super level, posses higher rating on that distance and his class of play is higher. That is it. I am sorry.

The equal score is a result of a nice opening and 1st phase middlegame preparation by Gelfand not his strength. .
Have you noticed that most games around 20th move were dry endgames.

I am not Anand fan.

Anand was only one ply ahead, witch was enough!!

If you look at official commentators (GM Leko and GM Nepomniachtchi) both sugested the "natural" Qf6, indirectly defending the knigh... Both where surprised with 15. gxh5 and only then they realized that "white is giving the exchange for a good attack".

They also missed, as Gelfand, the killer 17.Qf2! Note this commentators does not have engines. Hearing this human comments you can understand better why Gelfand blundered and see how tricky was Anand.

Commentators with engines, like GM Csaba at chessbomb writing inmediatly after Gelfand move " 14... Qf6 Amazing, Gelfand blundered with Qf6!!! Black can just resign after 15.gxh5 Qxf3 16.Kc2 Qxh1 17.Qf2! "

Just make me laugh... dishonest commentators, repeating the engine and cometing with a 3000+ level. They sure will be crushed by Gelfand!!

I do not think that commentators with engines are dishonest.
The line seems simple after you see it and they only expressed their opinion that may be effected by the fact that they saw the engine output.

I also think that something may be wrong in the thought process of GM's if they do not think how to trap the queen after Qxh1 when the queen has a low mobility.

Note that it is possible that part of the commentators who missed Qf2
could still find it in a game and I think that it is easier to play when you do not need to explain your thinking but I agree that Qf6 is not a stupid blunder and probably many GM's could make the same blunder.

[M ANSARI]

Actually way before Gelfand blundered, kibitzers on Playchess where mentioning that the Queen move was not playable and a blunder and showed the exact variation that Gelfand played more than 30 minutes before he actually played it. If Leko and other super GM caliber did not see the consequences, then that just shows how much stronger engines are. Of course the Playchess kibitzers had their engines running and thus tactically they were able to see much more. Good game by Anand and had he deviated from dry opening lines with no dynamics like he did earlier, he would probably be 2 or 3 games up.

[ernest]

If you look at official commentators (GM Leko and GM Nepomniachtchi) both sugested the "natural" Qf6, indirectly defending the knigh... Both where surprised with 15. gxh5 and only then they realized that "white is giving the exchange for a good attack".
They also missed, as Gelfand, the killer 17.Qf2!

Yes indeed!
...not so great, for GMs...

[Uri Blass]

Actually way before Gelfand blundered, kibitzers on Playchess where mentioning that the Queen move was not playable and a blunder and showed the exact variation that Gelfand played more than 30 minutes before he actually played it. If Leko and other super GM caliber did not see the consequences, then that just shows how much stronger engines are.

If you have ever done commentating, you know how difficult it is, sometimes much more difficult than playing itself. Your attention is distracted by many things, you have to entertain the audience, talk with your fellow commentators, etc.
I am sure both Lékó and Nyepomnyashchiy would have found gxh5 if left alone (and of course without the pressure Gelfand was under).

finding gxh5 is clearly easier than avoiding Qf6
The question is not if they could find gxh5 but if they could avoid Qf6.

Uri

[IGarcia]

Anand is stronger player because he has played more games on super level, posses higher rating on that distance and his class of play is higher. That is it. I am sorry.

The equal score is a result of a nice opening and 1st phase middlegame preparation by Gelfand not his strength. .
Have you noticed that most games around 20th move were dry endgames.

I am not Anand fan.

Anand was only one ply ahead, witch was enough!!

If you look at official commentators (GM Leko and GM Nepomniachtchi) both sugested the "natural" Qf6, indirectly defending the knigh... Both where surprised with 15. gxh5 and only then they realized that "white is giving the exchange for a good attack".

They also missed, as Gelfand, the killer 17.Qf2! Note this commentators does not have engines. Hearing this human comments you can understand better why Gelfand blundered and see how tricky was Anand.

Commentators with engines, like GM Csaba at chessbomb writing inmediatly after Gelfand move " 14... Qf6 Amazing, Gelfand blundered with Qf6!!! Black can just resign after 15.gxh5 Qxf3 16.Kc2 Qxh1 17.Qf2! "

Just make me laugh... dishonest commentators, repeating the engine and cometing with a 3000+ level. They sure will be crushed by Gelfand!!

I do not think that commentators with engines are dishonest.
The line seems simple after you see it and they only expressed their opinion that may be effected by the fact that they saw the engine output.

I also think that something may be wrong in the thought process of GM's if they do not think how to trap the queen after Qxh1 when the queen has a low mobility.

Note that it is possible that part of the commentators who missed Qf2
could still find it in a game and I think that it is easier to play when you do not need to explain your thinking but I agree that Qf6 is not a stupid blunder and probably many GM's could make the same blunder.

Well, probably the word "dishonest" from my part was too exagerated, my fault and lack of english.

Nepo and Leko of course where distracted and relaxed, helping to blunder like Gelfand.

Agree, commentators has a lot of work to do and its very hard. Its logical to get some computer help, and that does not make them dishonest.

Still, if you follow chessbomb comments, the ones in charge are almost ever in line with computer and they always spot blunders and refutations *inmediatly*.

Besides that, is interesting to have them because they give good comments on positions, ideas, plans, etc.... Just funny they spot immediately the blunders.