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Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans?
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Who is stronger? Computer or Humans? How much?
Computer +500 elo
29%
 29%  [ 16 ]
Computer 301-500elo
27%
 27%  [ 15 ]
Computer 101-300 elo
32%
 32%  [ 18 ]
Computer 1-100 elo
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Equality
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Human 1-100 elo
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Human 101-300 elo
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Human 301-500 elo
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Human +500 elo
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Voted : 55
Total Votes : 55
- Poll expired -

Author Message
Ed Schroder



Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 1615
PostPost subject: Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans?    Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:21 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Milos wrote:
Rebel wrote:
In the 80's the branch factor was about 4.0 and the estimated elo gain when doubling speed already was roughly 50-70 elo because an engine became ½ ply deeper. Nowadays with a branch factor of >= 1.5 <= 2.0 a doubling of speed gives a full ply to 1½ ply deeper search, hence the elo gain goes up as well.

EBF is 1.5 to 2 only for low depths. Over mid-game depth of 30, EBF goes much higher since LMR is not so effective and null move is almost ineffective. Hence diminishing returns, hence lower gain per doubling.

First of all we are not talking about a TC of 20 minutes per move but normal TC's (as Adam used) and the main reason for diminishing returns at such high TC's of 20 min is not LMR or null-move but a full hash table.

Furthermore I don't understand your comment about "null move is almost ineffective", the deeper the tree, the more recursive null-moves you get.

Quote:

After that we can talk about your nonsensical 1½ ply deeper search per doubling...

P.S. It's not nice to mock other ppl when you yourself is also prone to write a lot of technical nonsense on this forum...

There seems to be a contradiction in your last 2 sentences Wink
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Subject Author Date/Time
Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:19 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:28 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Andrew R. Case Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:45 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:50 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:01 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:26 pm
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 pm
                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:08 pm
                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:10 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:13 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:15 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:43 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:54 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ignacio Garcia Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:03 am
                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:24 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Julien MARCEL Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:29 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:32 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Maurizio Maglio Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 am
                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:53 am
                                                Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:33 am
                                                      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:49 am
                                                Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:14 pm
                                                      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:43 pm
                                                            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:15 pm
                                                            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:09 am
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:48 am
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:10 pm
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:23 pm
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:51 pm
                                                                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:58 pm
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:46 pm
                                                                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:12 pm
                                                                        Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:39 pm
                                                                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:10 pm
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:17 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:57 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:34 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:04 am
                                                                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:36 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:46 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:52 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Norman Schmidt Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:05 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Adam Hair Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:49 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ed Schroder Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:51 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:19 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ed Schroder Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Carl Bicknell Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Oliver Brausch Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:15 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Carl Bicknell Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:58 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ricardo Barreira Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:29 am
                                                                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Uri Zlatnik Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:47 pm
                                          Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Guy Marfan Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:52 pm
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Dr.Wael Deeb Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:43 am
                                    Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:27 pm
                              Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Ricardo Barreira Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:24 am
                  Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:15 pm
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sean Evans Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:00 am
            Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Sedat Canbaz Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:07 am
      Re: Who is stronger at chess? Computers or Humans? Eduard Nemeth Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:12 am
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