mschribr wrote:After this match Hiarcs should play Rybka again but without a gm. Lets see if Hiarcs does better with the gm or without the gm?
Mark
I do not like this idea because it seems obvious that hiarcs cannot do better without the gm.
Hiarcs will do better without the gm. The gm has the overriding say what the move will be. The 2750 gm will not see things the 3000 Hiarcs sees. A comparison match without the gm would be useful.
Uri Blass wrote:
Other similiar ideas(that I also do not support):
1)After this match the GM should play Rybka against but without hiarcs.
Lets see if the GM does better with software or without a software.
This would be a waste because of course the gm will do worse without hiarcs.
Uri Blass wrote:
2)After this match Rybka should play again the same match but without a cluster.
Lets see if Rybka does better with Cluster or without a cluster.
This would also be a waste because Of course Rybka will do better with a cluster.
You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.
I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).
according to the Advanced chess website http://advancedchess.netfirms.com/description.htm
the combination of a GM with a top program makes for a superior and formidible opponent, increasing (overall) strength about + 200 ELO.
if this is true, and
Rybka 3 64-bit 4CPU = 3231 ELO (CCRL)
Hiarcs 12 4CPU = 3005 ELO (CCRL)
then it's going to be quite a match...at a level rarely (if ever) seen.
thanks Harvey for putting this fascinating event together!
Uri Blass wrote:
I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).
Uri
in addition the top GM will of course be no stranger to the Rybka engine
i imagine he will have as much experience using it as any top GM would
Uri Blass wrote:
You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.
I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).
Uri
He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark
Uri Blass wrote:
You seem to assume that the GM is totally unprepared for the match.
I guess that it is obvious that the GM is going to train at home by playing as a team with hiarcs against Rybka and he is not going to use a strategy that gives him worse results relative to the results of hiarcs(not using worse strategy is very easy and accepting all the moves of hiarcs is one way).
Uri
He can not prepare very well if he does not have a 52 core computer.
Look at past freestyle tournaments. The weaker player wins by being a referee over 3 or 4 programs. If he had 3 engines running on 3 computers he would have a chance.
Mark
I agree that he cannot prepare very well but at least he can verify that his playing strength is not weaker than the engine and some preperation is better than nothing.
I cannot tell nothing based on free style tournaments because I know nothing about the players and their strategy and I do not care about it.
I believe that there was not enough money in the free style to convince strong GM's to participate.
I dont think this game will have a lot of interest outside of the hard core chess fanatics. It wont even approach the interest shown in the Kasparov v Deep Blue match. But the following would be interesting---
The owner-creator of Rybka would be present and of course the Grand Master using the assistance of Hiarcs.
There would be a panel of chess experts with state of the art chess assistance judging the performance. After five moves thay would decide who has the advantage. The inferior side would receive an electrical shock. If they are at a small disadvantage, they would receive a small electrical shock. If the disadvantage is larger then the shock would be larger.
They could make these decisions at the tenth move, fifteenth move, twentieth move etc., etc. Of course they could arrive at a time when the pain elicits a scream of anguish as the person does a Curly shuffle on the ground as he squims and squirms around.
I think such an exhibition would make a million dollars on pay per view. At the very least it would put chess on par with professional wrestling and ahead of tv poker.
james uselton wrote:I dont think this game will have a lot of interest outside of the hard core chess fanatics. It wont even approach the interest shown in the Kasparov v Deep Blue match. But the following would be interesting---
The owner-creator of Rybka would be present and of course the Grand Master using the assistance of Hiarcs.
There would be a panel of chess experts with state of the art chess assistance judging the performance. After five moves thay would decide who has the advantage. The inferior side would receive an electrical shock. If they are at a small disadvantage, they would receive a small electrical shock. If the disadvantage is larger then the shock would be larger.
They could make these decisions at the tenth move, fifteenth move, twentieth move etc., etc. Of course they could arrive at a time when the pain elicits a scream of anguish as the person does a Curly shuffle on the ground as he squims and squirms around.
I think such an exhibition would make a million dollars on pay per view. At the very least it would put chess on par with professional wrestling and ahead of tv poker.
james uselton wrote:I dont think this game will have a lot of interest outside of the hard core chess fanatics. It wont even approach the interest shown in the Kasparov v Deep Blue match. But the following would be interesting---
The owner-creator of Rybka would be present and of course the Grand Master using the assistance of Hiarcs.
There would be a panel of chess experts with state of the art chess assistance judging the performance. After five moves thay would decide who has the advantage. The inferior side would receive an electrical shock. If they are at a small disadvantage, they would receive a small electrical shock. If the disadvantage is larger then the shock would be larger.
They could make these decisions at the tenth move, fifteenth move, twentieth move etc., etc. Of course they could arrive at a time when the pain elicits a scream of anguish as the person does a Curly shuffle on the ground as he squims and squirms around.
I think such an exhibition would make a million dollars on pay per view. At the very least it would put chess on par with professional wrestling and ahead of tv poker.
Maybe your post will be moved to CTF
But instead of electroshocks maybe apply waterboarding (refer to CTF)
Harvey Williamson wrote:Rybka on its 52 core Cluster has become an awesome Chess entity, probably more powerful than Deep Blue. We all know that Deep Blue defeated Kasparov. Cluster Rybka would I am sure beat any GM or other engine in a match. But can it beat any other Chess entity?
The only engine to have finished ahead of Rybka in recent times in a major tournament is Hiarcs, probably the most consistent performer on the SSDF ratings list for almost 20 years.
I am organising a match in Central London. It will be played where the public can watch as well as all the usual internet streams on Playchess and ICC etc...
The match will be a Top GM + Hiarcs v Cluster Rybka. 6 games played over a week using a Fischer time control probably 90+30 or 90+60. Hiarcs will use hardware that fits in 1 box, probably a dual Nehalem system. The GM will have access to CB10 and opening books. He will not see the Rybka opening book, the only engine he can load is Hiarcs.
I have discussed the match with Vas Rajlich who has agreed to play. I have a top GM lined up and a venue in Central London. I just need to raise a few thousand Euros to make it all happen. 3 sponsors so far have promised some cash towards the event.
Would you like to contribute? If so please get in touch with me via a Private message. This is a match that will interest the media and promote Computer Chess.
Harvey Williamson wrote:Rybka on its 52 core Cluster has become an awesome Chess entity, probably more powerful than Deep Blue. We all know that Deep Blue defeated Kasparov. Cluster Rybka would I am sure beat any GM or other engine in a match. But can it beat any other Chess entity?
The only engine to have finished ahead of Rybka in recent times in a major tournament is Hiarcs, probably the most consistent performer on the SSDF ratings list for almost 20 years.
I am organising a match in Central London. It will be played where the public can watch as well as all the usual internet streams on Playchess and ICC etc...
The match will be a Top GM + Hiarcs v Cluster Rybka. 6 games played over a week using a Fischer time control probably 90+30 or 90+60. Hiarcs will use hardware that fits in 1 box, probably a dual Nehalem system. The GM will have access to CB10 and opening books. He will not see the Rybka opening book, the only engine he can load is Hiarcs.
I have discussed the match with Vas Rajlich who has agreed to play. I have a top GM lined up and a venue in Central London. I just need to raise a few thousand Euros to make it all happen. 3 sponsors so far have promised some cash towards the event.
Would you like to contribute? If so please get in touch with me via a Private message. This is a match that will interest the media and promote Computer Chess.
